A Treasure Of Egyptian Music. Interview With Dina El Wedidi

by Alexandra Mansilla

A Treasure Of Egyptian Music. Interview With Dina El Wedidi

29 Mar 2024

Dina El Wedidi, an Egyptian songstress/composer, boasts a soulful sound deeply rooted in her cultural heritage. Time magazine recognised her as one of the ten Next Generation Leaders in 2019. She also collaborated with Gilberto Gil through the Rolex Mentor and Protégé Arts Initiative. Earlier this year, she performed her music at the NYUAD Art Center in Abu Dhabi.

We thought our conversation would centre solely around music, but it took some unexpected turns. We delved into Dina's stint as a tour guide, where she had to speak Turkish with little knowledge of the language, reminisced about her mother's signature dish, and, of course, explored various musical topics. Learn about the differences between Egyptian and Brazilian music, discover the song that brings Dina to tears, and uncover the melodies that evoke waves of nostalgia.

— Dina, we know a fun fact about you. You worked as a tour guide in Egypt! When we think of “tour guides in Egypt,” our minds immediately conjure up images of pyramids, mummies, and all sorts of legendary tales. Could you dive deeper into this experience and share more about it?

— I think it was the most fun experience of my life! I graduated from Cairo University and studied Oriental languages, which included Turkish and Persian. As a student, I thought, "Why not find a job while I am studying?" I applied to the company and told them I speak Turkish. But, honestly, my Turkish wasn't very good at the time.

After that, I travelled to Ankara and worked on improving my skills before returning to work there again. So, it was a lot of fun but also short-lived. And yes, of course, my first trip with the Turkish group was to the pyramids. So, you are right about that.

— By the way, how many languages do you speak now?

— Arabic is my native language, also I speak English, and a bit of Persian and Turkish.

— Which was the hardest to study?

— The hardest... Turkish. Because it is the opposite of the Arabic. For instance, if I want to say "I went to the school" in Turkish, you have to say "to the school I went." So, basically, you have to reverse the order of every single thing you want to say.

— Okay, now let’s get back to the roots. Who are your parents?

— When someone asks me who inspires me, I always say, “My mother.” She plays a significant role in my life. She is a powerhouse of energy and is involved in various artistic pursuits. Besides being an excellent cook and chef, she has a great sense of taste. Whenever I finish a song, I seek her feedback. She is truly an amazing mother.

My father works as a mechanical engineer, specialising in electronics and cars. I also have three sisters and brothers.

— Is there a specific meal your mom cooks that you love the most? Like, when you come home and have that meal, does it make you feel like you are truly at home?

— Oh yes! I can drop anything important just to go home if she has made spinach. I absolutely love her spinach, especially the way she prepares it with tomato sauce. Whenever she calls me and says, "Dina, I cooked spinach today," I rush to her immediately. That is how much I love her spinach.

— You started composing songs at a very young age, you were nearly 10 years old. How did it happen? Did you study in a musical school?

— That is a good question because, at that time, I didn't have any relationship with music or instruments. That came later, but it happened naturally. It all started just by listening with my ears. As time went on, I gradually started to learn more about music, but it was a slow process.

Coming from a non-musical family, it was challenging to learn about these things, especially since I was in a completely different community with friends who weren't involved in music. So, step by step, I began to discover what I wanted to do and where I wanted to go.

Photo: Dina's personal archive

— In my childhood, musical schools were associated with something that discouraged you from sitting down at the musical instrument. Nowadays, there are a lot of practices on the internet where you can study music online, like courses. And they enjoy studying music! So, what is better? Is musical school essential?

— I believe that music theory has provided many opportunities for the new generation, and I truly think it can be beneficial. As you mentioned, schools sometimes have rigid systems that can be challenging for many people. Speaking from my own experience, coming from a different background, I faced a lot of struggles. I often felt dissatisfied over the past 10 years because I didn't have the opportunity to study music at a young age like many others did. However, as I started to focus on music as a potential career, I began to make choices about what I wanted to pursue. It took me a while to decide on my main instrument — I experimented with guitar, bass, piano, and more. It was difficult for me, especially when I was around 24 and still searching for my instrument instead of already mastering it.

I strongly believe that playing an instrument is crucial for artists, singers, or musicians because it serves as a language to express what is in your mind. Recently, I decided to focus on learning musical instruments, but then I shifted my focus to improving my music production skills. I began studying software because this wasn't something I could do in a traditional university setting, where you often spend years focusing on one instrument, like at a conservatoire or music school.

For me, it is essential to strike a balance between natural talent and music theory. Music theory can be extremely valuable, but it is essential not to become too academic or rigid in your approach. I always advocate for finding a balance between your innate talent and the academic side of music theory.

I would also like to touch on something related to education that inspired me as a kid. As a Muslim, we were constantly surrounded by the recitation of the Quran. Even in schools, we had individuals who would recite the Quran, which is called "azan" in Arabic.

I was always curious about the melodic aspect of the Arabic language and the phonetics used in Quranic recitation. Coming from an Oriental background, it was a stark contrast to Western education. This aspect of my upbringing, the sounds of Egypt, the recitation of the Quran, and the voices of those who recited it daily played a significant role in my education.

— You had a period, as I read when you addressed political concerns in your songs. Could you share something about this period with us? And the second question is, weren't you afraid of it?

— It was a significant time for me. The first time I had a professional band was in 2011, marking the beginning of my career during a revolutionary year. It was a golden era for the underground/alternative music scene, with bands addressing diverse topics, unlike the mainstream Egyptian music scene. We tackled issues ranging from social issues to politics, reflecting the realities of the streets. One of my earliest compositions, "Forbidden," challenged societal norms and went viral, sparking conversations. It marked the beginning of my journey into pushing boundaries.

Additionally, I explored folklore music from Upper Egypt but chose to create original music, which I termed "new folk." One of these songs, "Sira," defied conventions by presenting narratives typically sung by men. This was a bold move, especially considering it was taboo for women in Upper Egypt to sing such songs. However, the risk paid off, as the song resonated deeply and garnered significant attention. This journey was about breaking taboos and pushing artistic boundaries. Looking back, I consider myself fortunate to have been able to do so at that time.

— Egyptian music is full of storytelling. Can you tell us more about it?

— Absolutely, our cultural heritage in Egypt is incredibly rich, particularly when it comes to music. Storytelling has always been a fundamental aspect of our musical tradition, especially in classical Egyptian music from the 1920s to the 1940s. During this era, storytellers would captivate audiences by embodying various roles, from the hero to the victim, the choir, and even the audience itself. It is a performance art where you immerse yourself fully in the narrative, transcending your own identity to convey stories to the listeners. To excel in this role, one must be versatile and adept at assuming different personas seamlessly on stage.

— When was your first concert?

— The first concert was held in October 2011 at the El-Geneina Theatre in Cairo. It was a stunning venue, although it is no longer operational. Despite my initial doubts about attendance, the concert ended up being a sold-out event, with a capacity of 500 people. I have fond memories of that night, and I still cherish some thoughts and videos from the performance.

— Now you are famous, but fears can stay with us. Do you have a fear that there will be a small amount of people at your concert?

—There may be moments, especially when performing outside of Egypt to audiences less familiar with my work, where the reception might not be as overwhelming. I am striving to detach myself from the obsession with numbers, especially in today’s world that is fixated on how many followers or views artists reach for example. However, I am not fearful of numbers and remain undeterred. I still have aspirations to tour Europe and perform in countries I haven't visited yet. While I would certainly be delighted for my music to reach a wider audience, I am taking it all in stride and I will continue to do my best and see what the universe can offer.

— We all know that social media has different sides: good sides, like fame, and bad sides, like dealing with haters. Have you ever faced haters?

— Absolutely! As you mentioned, being behind the screens exposes you to a plethora of feedback, both positive and negative. Receiving criticism about your music, appearance, or actions can be disheartening. However, I have made a conscious effort not to let it affect me too deeply. While I value direct communication with my audience and occasionally engage with them through live sessions, I simply can't always keep up with every interaction. There will always be haters and lovers alike, but I genuinely appreciate all forms of engagement from my audience.

— And what about stalkers?

— Yes, of course, I have faced them. It is essential to address it openly with my close community so they can offer support and assistance in managing the situation. While it can be unsettling, sharing these experiences helps shed light on the issue and facilitates finding solutions.

— Is it difficult to be a woman in the music industry?

— As a woman, I feel disappointed to still be asked this question in 2024, I still have struggles, yes, but I don't want to waste a moment acknowledging that or dwelling on it. It has taken me many years to realise that I have something valuable to contribute to life, to say, "Please see us, recognise our talent. We are here." I am not just talking about me only, I am addressing this on a general worldwide scale. We have spent years just trying to assert ourselves, to be seen and heard. Perhaps this has been the main struggle we face as women. However, today, the Arab/African world has surely progressed beyond this.

I always feel proud to be Egyptian — especially an Egyptian woman — because we come from such a rich background. I come from a country where Hatshepsut was a prominent figure and where Umm Kulthum dominated the music industry. We have always had strong & iconic women in Egyptian history, and they have inspired me tremendously. As a woman, sometimes I wonder, what can I do after these great icons? They set the bar so high. So, for me, they serve as immense inspiration.

Being a woman in a male-dominated society comes with its challenges. It is not always easy to have the opportunity to express oneself freely, especially in a field like music. One of my challenges was not coming from a musical background and not speaking the same musical language as the musicians. It took me years to develop a common language with them, to effectively express my ideas and collaborate.

However, one of the main challenges is not just to be seen and respected as a singer but as a musician. Breaking through this perception and asserting oneself as a music producer, composer, and collaborator, especially on an international scale, has been another struggle.

Photo: Dina's personal archive

— In 2012, you were selected as a protégé to Gilberto Gil as part of the Rolex Mentor and Protégé Arts Initiative. Can you share how this opportunity came about? How did it all start? Did you apply for it, or did it come about through another avenue?

— So, Rolex has had a remarkable program for the past 22 years called Rolex Mentoring and Protégé. This program pairs accomplished mentors with promising protégés across various fields such as music, theatre, art, architecture, cinema, and many others. In 2012, Rolex selected Gilbert De Gil as a mentor, and subsequently, they had to choose different protégés. I was fortunate to be chosen as one of them.

In 2013, someone recommended me for this program. Initially, I was taken aback by the opportunity. I was sceptical when I received the email invitation and even thought it might be spam. However, I couldn't believe it when they followed up with a phone call confirming the invitation to meet Gilbert De Gil in Brazil. Despite my initial doubts, I decided to accept the invitation and attend the meeting.

Meeting Gilbert De Gil was an incredible experience. We immediately found common ground and had engaging discussions about music and its rich history. It was a truly memorable hour spent together. Afterwards, I reflected on the experience, grateful for the opportunity, regardless of the outcome.

Later, I was informed that I had been chosen to be mentored by Gilbert De Gil. Can you imagine how happy I was? The mentorship involved following him on his tours and learning from his experiences. I consider myself fortunate to have had such an opportunity, and our connection has endured beyond the formal mentorship period.

— So, Gilberto Gil and you are from very different cultures. During your collaboration, have you discussed these differences along the way?

— From the Nile to the Atlantic Ocean — yes, it is like opposite worlds. However, it was easy to find a lot of common ground between our cultures. Comparing music from both cultures, Brazilian songs are very peaceful and sound happy — I love the way they express it and whereas songs in Egyptian music are more sad. We love sad songs where we always complain and cry. But to make everything clear, we are happy people; we just love sad songs.

It was such an amazing experience for me. It opened many different doors, to be honest. It helped me a lot in composing later because I started to see lyrics in different ways. And I think that was a very important experience. After meeting Gilberto Gil, my way of producing became different. It allowed me to explore different imaginations and emotions more than just taking the lyrics as they are and presenting the melodies directly representing the lyrics.

Instagram: @dina.elwedidi

— In 2019, Time magazine chose you as one of the next-generation leaders. How did it happen? What did it mean to you, and did it impact your career?

— It was a big opportunity, and I felt incredibly honoured to receive it. It came as a surprise during a challenging period when I was questioning whether I was on the right path in my career. There were doubts and personal struggles, but receiving this recognition was like a sign that I was indeed on the right track. It brought a sense of validation and encouragement. Following that, I had numerous interviews and felt a greater sense of appreciation for my work.

— Do you like to give interviews, by the way?

— No. I am always very nervous. But it is just my thing!

— So, Egyptian folklore. How can you describe it in a few words, just for those people who know nothing about it?

— It is a unique, mysterious, and rich treasure.

— I have looked through your YouTube channel, and I found out that the most popular video is...

— The saddest one! “Tedawar w Tergaa” (“Turning Back”). It was written by the amazing writer, the late Mido Zohair, and composed by me, with arrangements by my friend Nancy Mounir. It is about love and heartbreak, depicting the journey of returning to the core point, only to find that your lover is not meant for you. It is like battling to reach the destination, only to realise that the one you seek is leaving you. The lyrics portray a sense of self-imposed imprisonment and the surrender of one's soul to a love that ultimately leads to disappointment.

You imprison yourself willingly, surrendering your soul to a lover without considering where they might lead you. Despite past hurts, you choose to love an angel, even if that angel disrupts your life. The lyrics are deeply poetic, resonating with listeners who relate to the emotional turmoil of love and heartbreak.

— Are your songs based on your personal experience?

— Yes, there are a few things I would like to share. For example, when selecting or writing lyrics — I also write my own sometimes — I aim to incorporate aspects of my personal life. There was a period when I was inclined to explore social or political themes, looking outward. However, currently, I feel I am in a very personal phase of my musical journey, and "Turning Back" is one of the most personal songs I have created.

— Now, about your recent album, Five Seasons. What is it about?

— So, this concept arose during the boring period of the pandemic. Like everyone else, I found myself spending a lot of time at home, trying to wrap up unfinished projects on my computer.

This EP, Five Seasons, encapsulates a significant period for me, during which I delved deep into various emotions. It was a highly emotional journey for me, touching on themes of love, anger, homesickness, and even flirtation.

— And now you are working on EP Benna, which is translated as “Between Us”.

Benna is a solo project that explores themes of distance, reflecting on global travel restrictions and the longing for guidance during these sensitive times. It covers various topics. I released one track from this EP and a music video titled “Bandahlak” last January.

Before Benna, I released my second album, Slumber, a highly experimental thing featuring recorded samples from Egyptian trains, totalling 36 minutes of sound. Following that, I felt compelled to delve deeper into music production, which led to Benna.

— Are there any topics that you want to explore in your songs?

— Yes, sure. I think I need more to go into nature. I need to talk about it, about climate change and stuff that is happening.

— And maybe there are some upcoming projects that you would like to announce?

— I have collaborated with several DJs and music producers primarily from Egypt but who reside outside the country. Soon, I plan to share some of this music with the audience, possibly during the summer.

— And two simple questions. What song can make you cry? Or what songs can make you cry?

— There is a song by Nick Drake that always makes me cry. It is from his album Five Leaves Left called "Riverman." This song has a profound emotional effect on me. I am not exactly sure why; perhaps it is the harmony, the melody, or Nick Drake's voice. Whenever I play it, tears start to flow, and it feels like it heals my soul every time I listen to it.

— What song evokes nostalgic feelings?

— All of Nina Simone's songs resonate deeply with me. I am a huge fan of her. Her voice has such power and emotion. Whenever I listen to the song "Feeling Good", I am filled with a sense of joy and satisfaction.

— Would you like to record a song for the cartoon once?

— Well, that would be great. Why not? Yes!

by Alexandra Mansilla